Temporary Detention Order, TDO, mental health institute, voluntary admission, involuntary admission, 72-hour hold, judicial hearing, family involvement, self-harm, drug use, psychiatric hospital, legal implications, gun rights, follow-up care, long-term effects, legal scenarios.
You’ve Been Impacted by a Temporary Detention Order.
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The objective of the What To Do When… podcast is to discuss common legal scenarios faced by everyday citizens in Virginia. Critzer and Cardani practice law throughout Virginia and focus their practice around the state’s capital of Richmond, in the Piedmont region. Tune in and subscribe to learn about legal topics such as reckless driving by speeding, bad lawyers, Will Knows Weed, juvenile defense, juvenile sex crimes, reckless driving, the legalization of marijuana in Virginia, divorce 101, Child Support, There is Still Hope, and others.
You’ve Been Impacted by a Temporary Detention Order.
On this legal video podcast chat in Critzer Cardani’s What To Do When… podcast series, join our hosts Jackie Critzer and Scott Cardani as they chat about What To Do When…You’ve Been Impacted by a Temporary Detention Order. This video and audio podcast episode focuses on the importance of mental health, and mental hospitalizations from a legal perspective here in Virginia.
Tune in today for not only our top take-aways, but also some chat about the following subject matters and other helpful action items from a ‘legal chat slant’ from Critzer Cardani’s legal partners.
* Scott Cardani explains that TDOs can result from voluntary or involuntary admissions to mental health institutions
* Jackie Critzer and Scott discuss the various reasons people seek help, including unusual violence, self-harm, drug or alcohol abuse, and hearing voices.
* They emphasize the need for adults to follow through with recommended care to avoid long-term legal and personal consequences.
* They discuss the long-term effects of mental health admissions on various aspects of life, including job applications and school admissions.
* Some long-term effects of mental health admissions.
* Stay informed and aware of the potential consequences of mental health treatment.
The objective of the What To Do When… podcast is to discuss common legal scenarios faced by everyday citizens in Virginia. Critzer and Cardani practice law throughout Virginia and focus their practice around the state’s capital of Richmond, in the Piedmont region. Tune in and subscribe to learn about legal topics such as reckless driving by speeding, bad lawyers, Will Knows Weed, juvenile defense, juvenile sex crimes, reckless driving, the legalization of marijuana in Virginia, divorce 101, Child Support, There is Still Hope and others.
Thank you for sending us your feedback, questions, or topic suggestions for future #WTDW | What To Do When… episodes by emailing [email protected].
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Transcript:
What To Do When… Intro 00:01
Welcome to What To Do When… A podcast from real lawyers with real perspective, where we explore a variety of legal issues and scenarios. Each week we focus on a new topic and discuss what to do when and if any of these legal scenarios ever happened to you or a loved one. With over 40 years of combined legal experience, our hosts offer their unique perspectives and insights on a range of real life legal situations.
Jackie Critzer 0:28
Hi. Welcome back to another episode of What To Do When… we’re here in Richmond, Virginia. I’m Jackie Critzer.
Scott Cardani 0:34
I’m Scott Cardani. Jackie, what’s on the docket for today?
Jackie Critzer 0:38
Today is What To Do When… You’ve Been Impacted by a TDO.
Scott Cardani
What’s a TDO? Jackie?
Jackie Critzer
A temporary detention order.
Scott Cardani 0:49
That’s really a big topic, because a lot of people don’t even understand what that is, and maybe something happened to when they’re a kid or an adult. But what we’re talking about in broad terms is two different categories. Is one category is when you voluntarily went into some kind of inpatient treatment, long term, you’ve been by the court, or you went to a mental health institute to get help for…
Jackie Critzer 1:14
Well, I think even short term, right?
Scott Cardani 1:15
Yup.
Jackie Critzer 1:15
You can do even three days, five days…
Scott Cardani 1:18
One day.
Jackie Critzer 1:20
I think even one day, well, when you voluntarily go, what sort of situation do you find that people say, I’m not dealing well with this situation? I got to go. I need I need help.
Scott Cardani 1:32
Well, it can be a lot of things. It can be, for instance, a family crisis where maybe a parent died and you’re a kid and you just weren’t handling it well, and they decided you needed to stay because you freaked out, maybe got angry and were tearing things up could be it.
Jackie Critzer 1:34
So maybe unusual violence?
Scott Cardani 1:48
Yep, unusual violence or self harm.
Jackie Critzer 1:52
Any kind of self harm.
Scott Cardani 1:54
A lot of people get go to mental institutes when they’re having issues with drug use or alcohol use, and they can’t control it, and they just start their behavior starts to just deteriorate to a point where parents or somebody else in their life says, Hey, you’re out of control. You’re you’re doing crazy stuff. You need help.
Jackie Critzer 2:14
Do you think it’s more common that people say they recognize their own maybe temporary or maybe more permanent, need for assistance? Or do you think it’s more common that they don’t really see it themselves, and it’s a family member that sees it, and a family member that sort of has to either call the police to get them to take them to what is commonly referred to as a psychiatric hospital or psych ward mental health facility, or they try to convince them to go on their own?
Scott Cardani 2:41
Yeah, I don’t know. I would say it’s probably pretty close to even in that I think people do recognize their behaviors falling apart and they’re looking for help sometimes, and sometimes they know how to get it, sometimes they don’t, and like you said, but I do think families fall into that a lot, where especially young people, that would be the parents going like, Hey, this is way beyond normal behavior for you, and I’m really concerned about you. You need to get some grounded help. And you know, those things are very, very wonderful and helpful. The other category is when a court or somebody else says you’re going here, you’re going to do these things because of your behavior. You’re going to go inpatient mental health treatment, you’re going to go inpatient, drug treatment, any of those kind of things where it’s ordered by the court, which could be a plethora of things, and the court basically, or some kind of judicial body, body is saying you have to do this, and you’re complying with that judicial body’s order, then that’s kind of the same period. The difference is you went willingly one way and the other way. You didn’t go so willingly.
Jackie Critzer 3:47
All right, so let’s, let’s walk through a scenario where we’ve got, we’re going to do an under 18 versus an over 18, if there’s a difference. We’ve got this young person under 18, they’ve experienced some sort of trauma. They’re engaging in serious, significant self harm. They are acting in a very, very bizarre way, just unusual. Maybe they may be hearing voices. Maybe they say they’re hearing voices. Maybe they say they’re seeing things that that the rest of the people in the room can’t see. And you’ve you know, the the parent, the family member, the teacher, the counselor at school, whomever said, we’ve got a mental health crisis, we need to get this person seen by a psychologist or psychiatrist. Now we go to here in Richmond, it’d be what like poplar springs or Tuckers.
Scott Cardani 4:37
Or Tuckers or something like that. And sometimes you have to call the police to get them to go. And the police have that ability to help you get them there, and that’s where the TDO comes in. But if you’re talking voluntary, we’re in the voluntary under age, then it’s parents going like, son, we’re going to take you to tun we’re going to admit you for a few days, and we feel like you need really some serious help.
Jackie Critzer 4:56
What’s the first thing that happens when you know whether you arrive by cop car, or you arrive with your parents, you arrive at the at the door of these facilities. Do you know what’s the next step? You’re evaluated? I presume.
Scott Cardani 5:07
Yeah, you’re basically going to you go in, you you register in. It is a different process. If you’re involuntarily, like somebody is ordering you to go. Then there’s a 72 hour hold where the facility will have a chance to evaluate you, and that usually goes before some kind of lower level judiciary hearing, usually done by some kind of Commissioner, and they determine if you need a longer stay or don’t need a longer stay. But if you go voluntarily, they kind of determine that. And obviously, if it’s voluntary, you kind of have a chance to leave.
Jackie Critzer 5:40
And it’s not necessarily 72 hours. It could be less than that.
Scott Cardani 5:44
Could be less, could be more.
Jackie Critzer 5:45
So if you go and the police have taken you because you your young person, or you didn’t really want to go, that that 72 hour hold, I believe and correct me, if I’m wrong, that’s usually for someone who is found to be a danger to themselves and or others, is that, right?
Scott Cardani 5:45
Yeah, exactly. You’re you’re talking that’s gotten so bad that they’re you, and it’s normally, most of time, it’s dangerous themselves, more so than others, but so that’s where you’re at, yeah. And so again, and after that 70 hour hold, they have a committee hearing, and usually that person’s appointed counsel, and then they determine it’s usually kind of a guardian. Litem, I used to do those 20 years ago, those hearings. And then you they make a determination, based on the report of the hospital and everything that’s going on, whether they need to stay and continue in treatment and be ordered in the treatment or not. Obviously, if you come in on your own or your parents own, and after they do an evaluation, they say, Hey, we’re going to change your medication. You can go home, or we think you need a long term stay, then that’s a whole thing between the parents and everybody, and that can just be worked out between the parties. I mean, I guess you could get up and leave if you’re the 17 year old staff not staying.
Jackie Critzer 6:57
Well, during that 72 hour hold, which is the non voluntary typically, what sort of contacts should the family expect to be able to have? Or what should maybe the person who’s being held what sort of contact should they expect to have with parents or outside the facility?
Scott Cardani 7:07
I wish I knew, currently, I don’t really know it’s it’s not a lot,
Jackie Critzer 7:17
Probably not in person. Maybe phone contact for 72 hours.
Scott Cardani 7:21
I think that’s what you’re dealing with. You’re dealing with pretty minimal because they’re trying to evaluate them, and they have to get them into their routine, and, you know, sometimes they need sedated and all kinds of stuff. So, I mean, you’re just talking about a whole I’ve had parents be there the whole time and just wait and get what little information they have. And I’ve had parents who just, you know, kind of left and set up, let me know.
Jackie Critzer 7:41
And so what happens next is, does the family need an attorney? What are they supposed to do in this process? You know, these, these families are sort of flying blind, I think when it comes to committing their children, even if it’s for a day or three or 10 or 30.
Scott Cardani 7:57
Yeah, I think the biggest problem with committing in these kind of things is the the after effect of them. So here’s what I’m talking about, say – Jackie’s 14 years old, and she goes off the deep end, she lost her boyfriend, and decides this is the end of life. And I’m not trying to make light of that, because these things really do happen. People get so…
Jackie Critzer 8:19
It’s a spiral, right?
Scott Cardani 8:20
It’s a spiral. And all sudden, you know, her life, just for her, in her mind, feels like she’s just everything’s nothing that we live for. And she starts to try. She starts cutting on herself and doing this stuff. And, you know, she gets TDOed. Say she’s there for 72 hours. She goes on with life. Never has another issue, never has another mental health break, nothing that was just a bad thing.
Jackie Critzer 8:44
Just a blip on the radar. Yeah, right, and I’m okay.
Scott Cardani 8:49
Yeah, ok. Growing up. And so Jackie’s 29 years old and a lawyer now and living a great life, and she decides, hey, I’m gonna go purchase a handgun for myself, and I just feel like I want to start shooting, or she wants to go hunting, whatever it is, and she goes into that gun store or wherever, and there’s this big form you have to fill out, and you go down, you start checking out the boxes. And you know, she was 14 at a time. I forget that the way the questions are worded on there can be really tricky, then what they’re looking for is you to say yes to that, that you’ve been committed at some point in your life, or you’ve been in a mental voluntarily, in a mental institute, and most people think that doesn’t apply to me, or they don’t even remember it.
Jackie Critzer 9:31
I was 14. Why would it? Assuredly, this only means over 18, right?
Scott Cardani 9:36
Then all of a sudden, the state police show up at the place you’re at and they’re arresting you on both the felony and probably a misdemeanor, both, because they kind of just dual do that and then…
Jackie Critzer 9:47
That is based on the wrong misinformation on the gun application, gun application, right?
Scott Cardani 9:52
You, You swore under oath that this always this was true. And I have had represented so many people in this arena that. Who have gotten this charge because they forgot about something, or they’ve had partial rights restored, but not the gun right restored, or something like that. But so this is very important, because we don’t understand this as a society, especially when it’s voluntary. I think, I think it’s a little different when it’s involuntary. But so, you know, you don’t answer the question, right, and then you’ve lied under oath. And then on top of that, you’ve probably picked up the gun, which is possession. Soon as you touch the gun. So say, Jackie goes into the store and picks up the gun, and she’s looking at, oh, I like this gun. I love the color. And she puts it back down. She just possessed a firearm in front of the clerk, who’s going to be the witness.
Jackie Critzer 10:36
Right
Scott Cardani 10:37
So it really is, it’s, it’s…
Jackie Critzer 10:39
It’s just not just the hospitalization event, it is long term and and I mean, you’ll see questions probably for the rest of your life about whether you’ve ever been hospitalized for mental health issues. We see it a lot in custody cases. We see it in divorce cases. We see it in a lot of different aspects. And then people start combing through your your medical records, and well, you were in the hospital, but you didn’t report it to this physician. And why aren’t you reporting in what was the issue and so, and I’m not saying you shouldn’t go when you need to go, just be aware that it’s if there’s no shame in going. But it is important to to be honest about hospitalizations as you move forward beyond the hospitalization. Scott, I think it’s important to draw a distinction between the 17 and under versus the 18 and over. So I’m a mom of a kid who’s 19 or 20, let’s say, and this kid has had to go in on a temporary detention hold. And they’ve similar situation. They’ve it’s a blip on the radar, but they need more help then what then can be provided outside the institution? What can I expect to be informed about from the facility of my over 18 year old child? Very little, yeah,
Scott Cardani 11:56
VERY LITTLE… ha. So whole different ball game because they’re an adult. And then you get in the HIPAA records and all this kind of stuff. And if you don’t have that prepared right, where they have a release of information and all those kind of things, you could be in the dark about your whole kids treatment, not know they could release them in 72 hours, and you have no idea if he’s okay, not okay. It becomes a very dark place for you as the parent trying to help your kid. And you know, say your kids honest to a fault. That’s great.
Jackie Critzer 12:21
But, maybe they’re mad because you put them in the in the facility and now you’re getting zero information. You don’t know what medications they’ve been put on. You don’t know if they’ve received some kind of diagnosis that needs to be…
Scott Cardani 12:36
Watched or screened or.
Jackie Critzer 12:37
Yeah, right.
Scott Cardani 12:38
Or they could come out and say nothing happened to me. You put me in there for no reason, and they had this whole litany of things that they things that they needed treatment or, you know, all those things. But yeah.
Jackie Critzer 12:46
Well, in another podcast, you can look for us talking about Will’s, trust and estates, powers of attorney, and how that can help in situations like this, especially when your young person’s going off to college and, you know, they’re, they’re away from you, and you don’t, you don’t know what’s going on, then you get the phone call, you still can’t do anything. They’re over 18. But watch for the podcast that’s going to come out in the next few weeks about powers of attorney that can help with your young person once they are getting ready to embark upon a college or some other journey that goes beyond your house.
Scott Cardani 13:18
And let me say one other thing about this whole thing with the gun things, I don’t want to harp on that. We’ve done a thing on gun rights, and you can look that up. But one thing you need to if you have children, family member adults, who went through any kind of this where they’ve been either forced into some kind of treatment or voluntarily did a treatment, your rights to own and purchase a gun are compromised tremendously, and a lot of times they don’t remember as kids, so as parents, it’s good to say, Hey, honey, just remember now you’re adult. If you ever go buy a gun, you know, just reminding people that, because if they answer that question wrong, they’re gonna be looking at a felony. You’re gonna come in there, we can obviously help you get your rights restored. If that’s happened to you, we, I’m I do that all the time, and it’s a pretty straightforward process, but we we’ve done that. We’ve done a podcast home right rights restoration before, too. You can watch that. But my point is, there’s two different levels. Sometimes you need a governor to pardon or give you back your rights first, and then you get your gun rights. And so there’s a lot of things to know, but you need to talk about it. And as family members who have people who’ve had mental health or drug issues or long standing issues, you need to remind them that those are hindrances to firearms, yeah, purchase and possession. And you need to make sure that they know that, because you don’t want them to get in trouble and be facing a felony when they you know, some people go through life, you know they’re 40 years old, and they forgot that when they’re 12 that something happened.
Jackie Critzer 14:42
Sure.
Scott Cardani 14:43
Because it just isn’t on the radar anymore. They’re like, I’m healthy, I’m good, I never had a problem. So those are the ones that usually get you.
Jackie Critzer 14:48
Well, speaking of the never had a problem, or did have a problem and worked on it once your family member, you or your family member or your close friend, whatever it is, is released from this psychiatric or. Health, hospital or facility, it is really important to follow the instructions, follow the recommendations every single time there is a recommendation, to follow up with your primary care, follow up with the therapist, follow up with the psychiatrist. If there’s medication involved, it is critical that you for future questions. It is critical that you take the steps and do your follow up care once you’re released. That’s going to help you in every area, with jobs, with school applications, with, I mean, in every way, it’s going to make a difference for you if you do your follow up care after you or your family members been been held.
Scott Cardani 15:37
Again, if you feel like maybe you were wrongly diagnosed, and go get a second opinion and walk through that.
Jackie Critzer 15:43
For Sure.
Scott Cardani 15:43
You don’t necessarily have to use, I don’t know if that’s right, and go find your find out, make sure. But like Jackie said, these are all important that you, so to speak, we call it handling your business. You really need to handle your business because it does have long term effects. And that’s what really we’re talking about today, is there are long term effects that nobody thinks about when these things are going on, and we’ve got to be mindful and cognizant, because they can come back to bite you in a way that you were totally unexpected and really harmful to your life and your future. And we don’t want that for people.
Jackie Critzer 15:53
Be on the lookout for our next episodes. We look forward to seeing you like and subscribe.
Scott Cardani 16:18
Have a good day. Thank you.
What To Do When… Outro 16:19
We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of What To Do When… For more episodes, be sure to subscribe to our podcast and we encourage you to check archives to listen to previous topics. Tune in next week for a new episode and some fresh perspective from Critzer Cardani.
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