Criminal Law, Juvenile Law, Family Law, Disciplining Children, Reasonable Man Standard, Trier of Fact, Finder of Fact, Abuse Neglect, Juvenile Law, Spank, Spanking, CPS Involvement, Child Protective Services.
What To Do When… You Are a Parent Considering Corporal Punishment.
Follow the What To Do When… Legal Chat Podcast – Proudly Featured On:
- Apple Podcasts – What To Do When | A Dummies Guide to the LegalVerse.
- YouTube – What To Do When… A Dummies Guide to the Legalverse Playlist.
- Google Podcasts – What To Do When… A Dummies Guide to the Legalverse.
- Spotify – What To Do When… A Dummies Guide to the Legalverse Podcast.
- Amazon Music / Audible – What To Do When… A Dummies Guide to the Legalverse Podcast.
WTDW Podcast Home Page – What To Do When… A Dummies Guide to the Legalverse
The objective of the What To Do When… podcast is to discuss common legal scenarios faced by everyday citizens in Virginia. Critzer and Cardani practice law throughout Virginia and focus their practice around the state’s capital of Richmond, in the Piedmont region. Tune in and subscribe to learn about legal topics such as reckless driving by speeding, bad lawyers, Will Knows Weed, juvenile defense, juvenile sex crimes, reckless driving, the legalization of marijuana in Virginia, divorce 101, Child Support, and others.
WTDW Podcast | Episode 75: What To Do When… You Are a Parent Considering Corporal Punishment.
On this legal video podcast chat in Critzer Cardani’s What To Do When… podcast series, join our hosts Scott Cardani and Will Smith as they share about What To Do When… You Are a Parent Considering Corporal Punishment. This video and audio podcast episode focuses on the legal side of using wisdom as parents raising children here in Virginia.
Tune in today for not only our top take-aways, but also legal insight about the following subject matters and other helpful action items from a ‘legal chat slant’ from Critzer Cardani’s legal partners.
The objective of the What To Do When… podcast is to discuss common legal scenarios faced by everyday citizens in Virginia. Critzer and Cardani practice law throughout Virginia and focus their practice around the state’s capital of Richmond, in the Piedmont region. Tune in and subscribe to learn about legal topics such as reckless driving by speeding, bad lawyers, Will Knows Weed, juvenile defense, juvenile sex crimes, reckless driving, the legalization of marijuana in Virginia, divorce 101, Child Support, There is Still Hope and others.
Thank you for sending us your feedback, questions, or topic suggestions for future #WTDW | What To Do When… episodes by emailing [email protected].
#juvenilelaw #familylaw #spanking #spank #criminallaw #WTDW #whattodo #whattodowhen #podcast #video #videochat #videopodcast #law #Lawyers #lawyerchat #LegalPodcast #legalhelp #legaladvice #legalchat #chat #RealTalk #REALLAW #RealLawyers #realpeople #legalexperience #reallife #cclawva #critzercardani #RichmondVA #richmondvalawyer #richmondlaw #VirginiaLawyer #virginialaw #legalservices #knowyourrights #innocentuntilprovenguilty
@critzercardani
Transcript:
What To Do When… Intro 00:01
Welcome to What To Do When… A podcast from real lawyers with real perspective, where we explore a variety of legal issues and scenarios. Each week we focus on a new topic and discuss what to do when and if any of these legal scenarios ever happened to you or a loved one. With over 40 years of combined legal experience, our hosts offer their unique perspectives and insights on a range of real life legal situations.
Scott Cardani 0:29
Hello and welcome back to Critzer Cardani here in Richmond, Virginia. I’m Scott.
Will Smith III 0:34
I’m Will.
Scott Cardani 0:35
And we have another episode of What To Do When..
Will Smith III 0:38
What’s on the docket today, Scott?
Scott Cardani 0:40
We’re going to talk about today is What To Do When… You’re a Parent and You’re Considering Corporal Punishment.
Will Smith III 0:40
Okay.
Scott Cardani 0:41
This is a really evolving point of law. I mean, used to be that this was not even a consideration.
Will Smith III 0:53
Right. I mean, you’ve been practicing a lot longer than I have, longer than I have. So what… How did it used to be?
Scott Cardani 0:59
It used to be there was called a reasonable man kind of standard when parenting, and as long as you didn’t beat your kids to submission, corporal punishment was pretty considered okay. I mean, I grew up in schools where they were when I was in school, principals and teachers were allowed to give you physical discipline…
Will Smith III 1:18
Right.
Scott Cardani 1:18
…at school. So I mean, you’re talking that was just 30 some years ago, and now we’re here, where where are we at now? Well,
Will Smith III 1:29
Well now, I mean, now if you’re the force that you use in disappointing your child is deemed excessive from a reasonable perspective. You know you’re looking at charges of assault and battery or child abuse.
Scott Cardani 1:41
The real issue is, who determines the reasonable man nowadays?
Will Smith III 1:46
Why the court. I and anybody who is a fact finder is going to be the one that determines that. So a judge or a jury, whoever’s here in your case, is going to determine whether or not the actions that you took in disciplining your child were reasonable.
Scott Cardani 1:56
And think about this, folks, our culture has really shifted away from corporal punishment. I’m not saying I agree with that at all, so I want to make that clear. But, what was kind of normal years ago, or what we see a lot, is cultural differences. What may be normal in one culture may be completely abhorrent to our culture. You know, and we have this thing in America where everybody’s welcome and you can bring your own culture, but then when you violate these little tenants, all of a sudden you’re in big trouble, and you’re like, Well, wait a minute, you told me I could be who I want to be, and I’m parenting like I’ve done for 20 years, right? All sudden you’re not allowed to do that. So it really gets tricky. It’s really murky. And you got somebody, for instance, if the judge sitting thinks every form of corporal punishment is abuse.
Will Smith III 2:45
Right.
Scott Cardani 2:46
Then you smacking your kid on the hand when he touches the hot stove would be an assault matter, correct?
Will Smith III 2:54
That’s right.
Scott Cardani 2:54
I mean, that’s how easy it is, folks.
Will Smith III 2:56
What we’re seeing with a lot of these cases too, is that these are matters that are being reported by children, or in a lot of cases, when you have families that have that have been broken up. And so you know, child saves with mom on one week, and the other week, you know, the child coming back and claiming that there was some type of physical altercation that took place between the child and the other parent. And you know, that’s kind of where the case starts, and then they go from there.
Scott Cardani 3:19
Oh my gosh, that’s a big deal. Because say, you know, Will and his wife are totally fine. They grew up spanking their kids the whole time, like on the butt, nothing major, you know, no bruises or anything like that. But when they did something wrong, they popped him on a heiney. And then 10 years later, they get a divorce, and will smacks his kid on the heiney, and mom’s on the phone, hey, he physically, and, you know, they’re talking to the kid going, like, what daddy did was so horrible to you. So there’s this whole thing of setting it up. There’s this whole thing of victimization and being a victim. And this is a very, very quagmire, I would say. Because the reasonable man standard is brought by the person who is the trier of fact. And it used to be, there used to be some standard and some objectivity. Now I believe now it’s shifted.
Will Smith III 4:09
Oh, I think it’s fully subjective. It just kind of depends on who it is. Who is hearing the the case. And you know what their experience is raising children, or what their experience was, you know when they were coming up. But you know what the court is looking at. And I guess the way to think of it is, you know whether or not you You went too far, whether or not you were excessive. And again, that that can change from person to person, from culture to culture, and what is deemed to be appropriate or excessive. But I mean, you know, if you are leaving marks on a child, it seemed like they are more than just a simple, you know, spanking. I mean, that’s something that’s going to be brought to the attention of the court, if you, if you there was, if there was some type of object, right? I mean, back in the day, when, when I was coming up, you know, I mean that people still use switches, you know, my grandmother would, you know, when I was in trouble, make me go out and grab, you know, pick my own switch. Much so that I could be spanked by her. Then, if you’re using an object or something to discipline a child, you’re putting yourself in a position potentially for criminal charges to be brought against you in CPS investigations and everything else that comes along with that. So, you know, we’re both familiar with that and see that on a consistent basis, but I think a lot of people aren’t really aware. I think that they think, Well, I mean, I’m the parent, and I’m the parent, and I’m trying to discipline my child. I’m trying to teach him right from wrong, and this is the method that I use to do so you want to make sure that you know you’re not going over that line.
Scott Cardani 5:30
Yep.
Will Smith III 5:30
You’re not angry when you’re doing this. You know you’re you’re maintaining some calmness and doing it for a reason, right? You’re doing it for the reason of disciplining your child not to be excessive or to fight them, or something, something along those lines.
Scott Cardani 5:44
Or for instance, you have a kid and say your form of discipline is taking their cell phone, right? Okay? What if the kid says, heck, no, I’m not getting to he and runs out the door and you went and wrestle, you know, you go after him, and maybe you trip and fall, grabbing the cell phone from him as he’s trying to or he’s put in his pants pocket. You grab and jerk his arm because you’re trying to get the cell phone out. I’m telling you, people, these cases really do happen.
Will Smith III 6:07
And that would be assault and battery, right? If you’re crazy, grabbing somebody, something from somebody like that, or you’re trying to grab him, and they could have a claim against you for assault and battery. But I mean, when they’re looking at as far as discipline is concerned, you know, what were the steps that you took? Reasonable?
Scott Cardani 6:07
Yes
Will Smith III 6:07
Were your actions reasonable under the circumstances? Again, it’s supposed to be objective and supposed to remove any type of doubt. But mean it again, depending on who your judge is and depending on what court you’re sitting in, you know, it really is something that is determined by the trier of fact, and can differ from person to person.
Scott Cardani 6:36
And I’m gonna say something I probably shouldn’t say in this kind of podcast. This is something to me where, you know, there’s a lot of advocacy groups for all the victimization, but there’s really not an advocacy groups really for parents being parents and having the right to raise their children. I really believe in the right for a parent to raise their children the way they see fit. Obviously, if you’re sending Johnny to school the shiner, that’s a problem for me.
Will Smith III 7:00
Sure.
Scott Cardani 7:00
And I I don’t agree with that, but if you spank Johnny on the butt because he called you f effing, something else, right? I just saw, I don’t see a problem with that. And we just, we have to be careful of all those things. And the other thing that’s really interesting, say this, and I had this case, say your kid is vitamin C deficient. What is that going to happen?
Will Smith III 7:19
So your kid’s probably bruise a little bit easier, right?
Scott Cardani 7:22
Oh my gosh. I’ve had people grab their kid like this and leave a hand mark on their kid because their kid bruised so easy and they’re so susceptible to bruising. And that was brought as a charge, and we had to prove that the vitamin C deficiency caused it, that it wasn’t undue pressure. But you’re talking how many people can pay for the medical expert to come in and testify to that that you didn’t do anything wrong because he went to school with a bruise on his arm?
Will Smith III 7:47
Right.
Scott Cardani 7:48
You know, we we’re in we’re in deep water, folks. And everybody thinks it’s all good until they come knocking on your door. And this is what we try to explain to people. Sometimes you may think that everybody who ever touched their kid should be thrown in jail, and I’m not going to try to dissuade you of that belief. But just remember, when you do something accidentally and you leave a bruise by accident, say you’re shutting the door, and kid walks into the door and you hit him in the face and he gets a black eye. They’re going to come knocking on your door and you’re going to say, Oh, I was just trying to shut the door, and Johnny’s going to say, no, she was mad at me. She was angry. She was shutting that door as hard as she could. All of a sudden, you’re in, you’re in a different world.
Will Smith III 8:27
Yeah? Looking at a class one misdemeanor or class five or six felony, yeah?
Scott Cardani 8:30
And then social service gonna get involved, try to take your kids, and you’re gonna have to do counseling and all kinds…
Will Smith III 8:35
Months and Months and Months….
Scott Cardani 8:36
And years. Sometimes it extends into So, you know, we all believe we’re in a free society and we can do things the way we want to, but there are restrictions and limitations that have been placed in our society, which some I agree with, some I don’t, but you’ve got to be aware of them, folks. You’ve got to know what you’re talking about. You can’t just do what you want because you want to do it. Be smart enough to make sure that you’re fitting in with the cultural norms, and if you think those are problematic, then do the advocacy to get it changed. You know, and get the law changed, because that’s the way we do it right. Because you telling me, for instance, me spanking my kid so hard Did I leave bruises on his butt. On a normal kid who doesn’t bruise easily, and me going to court and say, Hey, I had the right to beat my kid like that. And you don’t have to say, Where are you going to be Will?
Will Smith III 9:24
I mean, might end up in the back, you know.
Scott Cardani 9:27
Are you going to win that argument? You’re not going to win that argument. I mean, maybe to some judge, you know, I remember a famous judge in Richmond Circuit Court who some of you older folks are probably laughing at right now. Never forget, we had a case, abuse neglect case that got appealed to circuit court. So it usually starts in Juvenile Court, and I don’t want to go through all this, because we don’t have time. But the mother had spanked the child with a plastic hanger and just and the evidence was she had spanked him on the butt. There was nothing else, no other evidence, and the judge was sitting there the whole time with a plastic hanger in his hand, hitting his hand like he was. Like, so annoyed that the case even got brought and he kept hitting his hand. He’s like, okay, what are we doing here? And he kept hitting his hand. And then, tragically, the plastic hanger snapped, and it cut his hand. He started bleeding during the trials. The funniest thing, but it was, you know, but that judge was like, There’s no way I’m to find these parents bad because they spanked their kid. There was no evidence that they were out of control. There was no evidence. And the back then, that was the thing.
Will Smith III 10:22
Right.
Scott Cardani 10:23
Were you out of control? Were you angry? Were you so frustrated that you’re you’re you lost your patience and you’re hurting your kid?
Will Smith III 10:29
Right.
Scott Cardani 10:29
But remember, folks, Parenting is hard. It’s not an easy thing. You have to be calm. You have to walk away sometimes and collect yourself. But you know, usually the people have never had difficult kids are the most critical people who have just difficult kids. You know, not everybody’s gets the great slice they have and everybody, so if you’re just pairing them, right? Well, we had five boys, and I’ll tell you right now, my parents disciplined us all the exact same way, and we all turned out a little different. So it’s not always that easy. So my point is just be careful, be mindful. Realize what’s going on around you. Don’t scream what you’re doing from the rooftops all the time.
Will Smith III 11:09
Don’t live stream it.
Scott Cardani 11:11
Don’t spank your kid at the daycare. Don’t spank your kid at at school, out in the parking lot. Yu know, or I mean, I walked in on a Target one time when I was a young man and a guy was beating the crap out of his kid. I didn’t intervene, but he was but he was in a target bathroom in the middle of the floor. And you know, that’s not okay, folks, you’re not that is not good. You’re gonna get in trouble.
Will Smith III 11:32
Yeah.
Scott Cardani 11:33
Spanking your kid in a car somebody’s gonna see even if you had every right to do it, they’re gonna see you. Somebody’s gonna have a different what am I trying to say? A different consciousness about it is going to come back and say some so anyways, obviously, I’m kind of passionate about this, you know. We got to get these things straight, but we want to help you. We’re here at Critzer Cardani. We’re here to help you. If these situations, you know, if you want to talk about it, you know, you can set up a consultation with us and say, I’m thinking about doing some things, and want some legal advice. We’re here to help. But if you get charged, or you get CPS involved in a case like this, you need good representation from the beginning. You need somebody who knows what they’re doing, knows what the reasonable man standard is, knows how to defend you, because if not, you’re gonna be in a world of hurt really fast.
Will Smith III 11:35
Yeah, and that’s something we definitely avoid.
Scott Cardani 12:20
Thank you again. We’ll see you again soon.
Will Smith III 12:23
Thanks.
What To Do When… Outro 12:24
We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of What To Do When… For more episodes, be sure to subscribe to our podcast and we encourage you to check archives to listen to previous topics. Tune in next week for a new episode and some fresh perspective from Critzer Cardani.
Need Legal Representation? Contact Critzer Cardani.
We look forward to helping you in this venture and Good Luck!
Recent Comments