AI legal ethics, Chat GPT, client confidentiality, discoverable information, privilege, professional responsibility, California case, third-party access, internet history, subpoena, closed universe AI, government surveillance, criminal culpability, legal scenarios, attorney-client privilege.
What To Do When… You’re Thinking of using AI for Legal Needs.
Follow the What To Do When… Legal Chat Podcast – Proudly Featured On:
- Apple Podcasts – What To Do When | A Dummies Guide to the LegalVerse.
- YouTube – What To Do When… A Dummies Guide to the Legalverse Playlist.
- Google Podcasts – What To Do When… A Dummies Guide to the Legalverse.
- Spotify – What To Do When… A Dummies Guide to the Legalverse Podcast.
- Amazon Music / Audible – What To Do When… A Dummies Guide to the Legalverse Podcast.
WTDW Podcast Home Page – What To Do When… A Dummies Guide to the Legalverse
The objective of the What To Do When… podcast is to discuss common legal scenarios faced by everyday citizens in Virginia. Critzer and Cardani practice law throughout Virginia and focus their practice around the state’s capital of Richmond, in the Piedmont region. Tune in and subscribe to learn about legal topics such as reckless driving by speeding, bad lawyers, bankruptcy, juvenile defense, juvenile sex crimes, reckless driving, Divorce, Marriage Separation, Child Support, There is Still Hope and others. Critzer Cardani PC serves Chesterfield, Richmond, Henrico, and all the surrounding areas here in Virginia from the Beach to the Blue Ridge.
What To Do When… You’re Thinking of using AI for Legal Needs.
On this legal video podcast chat in Critzer Cardani’s What To Do When… podcast series, join our hosts Jackie Critzer and Scott Cardani as they chat about What To Do When… Blended Family and the Holidays. This video and audio podcast episode focuses on blended families navigating the holidays here in Virginia.
Tune in today for not only our top take-aways, but also some chat about the following subject matters and other helpful action items from a ‘legal chat slant’ from Critzer Cardani’s legal partners.
* Jackie Critzer discusses the potential for AI to break client confidentiality and the ethical issues it raises for lawyers.
* Scott Cardani elaborates on how using AI services can expose information that was previously privileged, comparing it to having a friend in a meeting with a lawyer.
* Jackie Critzer explains that any information shared with AI services can be discoverable by the state, similar to breaking attorney-client privilege by involving a third party in a meeting.
* Scott Cardani shares his experience with juvenile cases, where having a parent in a meeting breaks privilege, and draws a parallel to using AI.
* Scott Cardani and Jackie Critzer discuss the permanence of information logged in AI systems and the potential for subpoenas to access search terms or results from AI.
* Jackie Critzer warns that even seemingly innocent searches or AI usage can lead to criminal culpability.
The objective of the What To Do When… podcast is to discuss common legal scenarios faced by everyday citizens in Virginia. Critzer and Cardani practice law throughout Virginia and focus their practice around the state’s capital of Richmond, in the Piedmont region. Tune in and subscribe to learn about legal topics such as reckless driving by speeding, bad lawyers, bankruptcy, juvenile defense, juvenile sex crimes, reckless driving, Divorce, Marriage Separation, Child Support, There is Still Hope and others. Critzer Cardani PC serves Goochland, Chesterfield, Richmond, Henrico, and all the surrounding areas here in Virginia from the Beach to the Blue Ridge.
On this legal video podcast chat in Critzer Cardani’s What To Do When… podcast series, join our hosts Jackie Critzer and Scott Cardani as they chat about What To Do When… You’re Thinking of using AI for Legal Needs. This video and audio podcast episode focuses on precautions to take when choosing AI for legal needs here in Virginia.
Serving Goochland, Chesterfield, Richmond, Henrico, and all the surrounding areas. From the VA Beach to the VA Blue Ridge. Thank you for sending us your feedback, questions, or topic suggestions for future #WTDW | What To Do When… episodes by emailing [email protected].
Transcript:
What To Do When… Intro 00:01
Welcome to What To Do When… A podcast from real lawyers with real perspective, where we explore a variety of legal issues and scenarios. Each week we focus on a new topic and discuss what to do when and if any of these legal scenarios ever happened to you or a loved one. With over 40 years of combined legal experience, our hosts offer their unique perspectives and insights on a range of real life legal situations.
Jackie Critzer 0:28
Hi. Welcome back to another episode of What To Do When… here at Critzer Cardani in Richmond, Virginia. I’m Jackie.
Scott Cardani 0:34
And I’m Scott. Jackie, what’s on the docket for today?
Jackie Critzer 0:36
Ooh, Chat GPT and other AI tools. – What To Do When… You’re Thinking of using AI for Legal Needs.
Scott Cardani 0:42
I don’t know, folks. There’s a big case out of California that’s really scary for lawyers, but it’s also scary for people. So this decision basically says that if you engage AI, Claude Chat…
Jackie Critzer 0:57
GPT…
Scott Cardani 0:58
Yes, I don’t say that because I can’t say it, and I don’t want you to laugh at me, but anyways, if you engage one of those services, especially like me as a lawyer… Say I have your case, it’s a, it’s a grand larceny case, and I put in the facts of your case and try to get some answer from Chat or Grok or whatever they are, and then you go like this, guess what, the Commonwealth or the state can discover what I put in there. Why is that? Why can they get that information?
Jackie Critzer 1:26
Well, the short answer is because when you plug it into or offer it up to a third party, it’s discoverable. It’s really essentially what the case is saying. It’s no different than if I’m your client and I bring with me a friend to the meeting that that destroys privilege, unless of course it’s because I’m not able to function on my own. There are some exceptions, but if I’m just bringing my friend, because I want my friend to come and hear what my lawyer has to say, what’s discussed in that meeting, that privilege is broken. That friend can be subpoenaed as a witness by the state to testify as to what we talked about, so you have to. That’s the same thing, that’s essentially what the federal case out of California said. That you are putting this information available, you’re you’re breaking your own privilege, so some big ethics issues there, client confidentiality, right, you’re, if you’re breaking the privilege by putting it into the AI function, whichever one it is, to figure it out, you are putting your client at risk, right? So now you’ve got professional responsibility issues, but it goes even further, doesn’t it?
Scott Cardani 2:12
Yeah, well, it goes to you too. I mean, when you, you know, so say you’re at home and you think you maybe did something wrong and you start searching, that you’re putting it out there in a place where it can be discoverable, and so if you were looking how to make a bomb out of a tin can, and you actually blow something up with a tin can bomb, and they don’t know if you did it or not, they search your social media or your chat, and all of a sudden there’s some evidence against you that wasn’t there before.
Jackie Critzer 3:00
Well, and even more, right? So this, this case, we were listening to a young lady who, who actually did a little blurb on it, and what the case really stands for is this: I come in, I talk to Scott, he’s my lawyer for whatever the thing is I needed a lawyer for. I go home and I, based on our conversation, plug some things into AI, and I want some analysis, maybe of some thought process, or maybe some whatever it is. Just because it was privileged when I left here does not mean it keeps privilege. So, if I’ve plugged it into #ChatGPT, even after our meeting, where it was privileged, I have just released the privilege by using AI.
Scott Cardani 3:41
It’s like this, you know. I used to, when I first started, I did multiple 1000s of juvenile cases, and when you have a juvenile case, the parent always came in with the child, and they wanted to stay in the meeting, and I always had to say, ‘Ma’am, I understand that you want to be here, and I understand why you want to be here, but this breaks the privilege, so what happens is, in that case, is if mom’s sitting in the meeting and junior tells me that he actually stabbed his coworker, they can subpoena mom to say that he said it. So this is the exact same thing. Now AI is your mom in that meeting, and soon as you engage mom in the meeting, the privilege is gone, and I used to have people get so mad at me. That’s not fair, that’s not right. I get it, but it’s where we are.
Jackie Critzer 4:28
Well, that’s this is probably just my hyperbole. I think this is going to lead to some sort of private use membership. I don’t know, because it really was about it being public, it was really using opening up to a third party, because we, as attorneys, have platforms that are closed universe AI, where you’re still cautioned not to include specific details of your cases, whatever kind of case it is. You’re certainly not supposed to use client names, even in a closed universe, but I bet you couldn’t. Reach through that, I bet that doesn’t break privilege inside the closed universe.
Scott Cardani 5:05
Also know this is a California case, so you know it hasn’t hit United States or Virginia yet, but it’s coming.
Jackie Critzer 5:11
It’s the 9th circuit out there, so…
Scott Cardani 5:13
Yeah, you know, which has some good nicknames, but I won’t go there, but you know you’re talking, it’s it’s coming, and we have to just be as lawyers, we have to be cutting edge and know what’s coming. It’s very important to protect your rights, so we have to realize that these things are coming, and we have to be extra careful as we, you know, research your case, or look for ideas, or look for information, even on your case. All those things can lend to a door opening that we didn’t expect. If we don’t understand this.
Jackie Critzer 5:40
For sure, and it’s not really surprising to know that the government, the state, the Commonwealth, wherever you are, can look into your history, right, your internet history. We hear it on Dateline or the other true crime TV shows, right? We’re like, oh, this person happened to be looking up, you know, how to buy arsenic under the radar or something silly like that, where they’re looking, they’re researching the ahead of time, the way to kill somebody, or maybe they’re looking for a murder for hire person, right? And so they, we know that they can go in, they can take your phone, your iPad, they can do your, your history search, they can do all these things. This really goes to it a whole nother level, right? Because now it’s in this, which we know, if you use AI, it is forever logged in an AI bank to help develop the monster, right? It just keeps growing, and so it’s forever saved. Where I don’t know that Google saves the searches, I don’t have any idea, or…
Scott Cardani 6:31
I am sure.
Jackie Critzer 6:34
And the other ones. And so then the question I have to have to ask, is well, can the Commonwealth issue a subpoena to Google for your Google credentials, and does that pull up your search terms?
Scott Cardani 6:50
Yeah, it’s got to be there, and it’s coming, and these are all things we’re going to have to fight. It’s just like for those of you who are having kids in college right now, the professors are able to see now through a program whether what they wrote was created by Chad or Claude, or any of the other ones, and they have ways, so all that stuff is starting to show us how much information we’re giving them and how much opportunity we’re giving them to police us, basically in a way that’s kind of scary, actually, because I scares me, I should say, I just think it’s kind of scary that they can get all that information.
Jackie Critzer 7:23
It’s not that we want you to try to get away. We started this about the AI. It’s not that we want you to get away with planning a crime. That’s not the point. The point is an innocuous or relatively innocent search or use of AI can really lead you down a path of criminal culpability, and that’s where you need to be really careful.
Scott Cardani 7:43
Yeah, and here in Virginia, whether you’re in Chesterfield or Henrico, Williamsburg, or wherever, your attorney needs to understand this. Because we don’t know when that shoe is going to drop, but it’s going to drop, and then you’re going to have a different fight on your hands than you expected when you started the case.
Jackie Critzer 7:59
Absolutely, how we can help you is up to you. We’d love to hear from you. [email protected] We look forward to hearing from you.
Scott Cardani 8:07
Like and subscribe. Thank you.
What To Do When… Outro 08:09
We hope you’ve enjoyed this episode of What To Do When… For more episodes, be sure to subscribe to our podcast and we encourage you to check archives to listen to previous topics. Tune in next week for a new episode and some fresh perspective from Critzer Cardani.
Need Legal Representation? Contact Critzer Cardani.
We look forward to helping you in this venture and Good Luck!
Recent Comments